January 2008
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Started by: KoalKoal
On: 1201988079|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Number of posts: 6
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January 2008
KoalKoal 1201988079|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hello again. Not much new at all in the MMO world. Age of Conan has been delayed and things have been very quiet regarding Warhammer Online. Both games sill have a lot of eager watchers. All we can do is hope that the many delays work out for the best and the games are that much better when they are finally released.

Pirates of the Burning Sea came out in January but word is that they have had extensive stability problems. There hasn't been a whole lot of community interest in the game despite it having a reputation for a sophisticated economic model and engaging ship-to-ship combat. The buzz-level for PotBS is somewhere between Tabula Rasa and Lord of the Rings Online. I would have tried the game myself just to see how it was but I started a new job this month which has confiscated all of my free time for a while so I don't have any personal opinions to offer.

Star Trek Online has been transferred to a new developer w/o any of the existing code. This means to me that the game is either completely dead with no chance of revival or that it will be 2-3 years before we see any further signs of life from it. Lesson learned here I believe is if there is one company you do NOT want working on your MMO it has to be Perpetual.

I have added a second section to the Watchlist just to track the development of interesting MMO's. When they get closer to release I'll promote them to the top half of the page. In the meantime it makes a convenient spot for me to remember what to look for when I troll for MMO news.

Since there are no new announcements or releases worth mentioning I'm going to talk about what I would like to see instead.

What I would like to see in an MMO is a return to the sandbox game. Every major game released or in development since Everquest 2 and World of Warcraft has been more and more an example of a 'theme park' game. A theme park world is one where players are lead from one activity to the next like a tourist in Disneyland. Each activity (quests, dungeons, pvp, pve) can be thought of as a ride and players as the customers. This gives the player the illusion of being able to travel freely around the world while the designer subtly leads them by the nose from place to place ensuring that players always know what they are supposed to do. Each quest leads to the next as players are pointed, even pushed, towards content tailor made for characters with their background and experience. This sounds like it should be a good thing, and in truth, it does a fine job of presenting the MMO newbie with a very directed and controlled game experience that can create a sort of protected comfort zone for them to play in.

Where the Theme Park game focuses on creating a series of interesting rides to carry players from start to finish the sandbox game on the other hand focuses on creating the game world as a whole. Another way to look at it is the Theme Park world is designed one ride at a time and these rides are then connected to form the world in the same way puzzle pieces form a picture with specific paths for players to follow from one piece to the next. The sandbox game focuses on the picture itself rather than the individual pieces. Unfortunately, in past sandbox games, this left finding interesting things to do in the hands of the player. If the player was new to the genre they could easily feel lost, without purpose or direction, become bored and quit. Even experienced players often dislike not being explicitly told what they should do as well as when and where they should do it. For my taste though, I hate being lead around. I greatly prefer to find my own way through a game. Exploration and discovery is at least half the reason I play these types of games to begin with.

What I really want is a huge world that I can wander around in finding interesting things to see and to do. I want it to be so big that I could easily spend an entire year playing the game and still not have seen every location, completed every quest, or encountered every type of content in the game. Related to that I want the world to change and evolve over time. I want places I visited months ago to have grown or been altered in some way based upon game events and player actions. I want the world to be a living, organic thing that is continually molded by the players who populate it.

The second big change I want is in appearance. I'm not referring to poly counts or graphics quality here. I mean I want the world's terrain and topography to be interesting. So often game worlds are bland and mundane, their landscapes dull and unimaginative. It seems ironic that so called 'fantasy' game worlds are often more deprived of interesting detail and depth than what can easily be found in the real one. Game designers really need to get out from behind their computer screens and take a look at the world around them. There are so many profoundly awe inspiring places out there that put anything ever done digitally to shame. The mountains, rivers and forests of places like Yosemite or Yellowstone, the giant sequioas of California, the deserts and canyons of the American Southwest. Amazing places like this exist all around the world yet when game designers undertake the creation of a fantasy setting they are so mired down in the dull and uninspired I have to wonder if they have ever even left their mother's basement. Part of their problem is one of scale. Their worlds are so compressed that they could easily be misplaced if translated meter for meter to the real one. I suppose it's hard to find room for something like Utah's Monument Valley or China's Soaring Dragon Cave when your entire world is no larger than a dozen or so city blocks.

To summarize: I want my next MMO to be huge, larger than all other game worlds combined and able to house anywhere from 10,000 - 100,000 players without becoming crowded. I want it to be a living, organic entity that changes over time. I want it to be at least as beautiful and interesting as anything I'm likely to see on the Travel Channel or in National Geographic. And lastly, I want it to be so stuffed full of dynamically generated content that there is no chance I will ever encounter every single thing that the game has to offer. While doing all that I want to maintain much of the hand tailored content of traditional worlds. Carefully crafted dungeons, castles, pvp battlegrounds and quest lines still have a place in my perfect game but only as further enhancement to the vast virtual world that houses them.

last edited on 1202005594|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Koal + show more
unfold January 2008 by KoalKoal, 1201988079|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: January 2008
KrisroeKrisroe 1202163006|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I think that there are some interesting landscapes in MMO's. Here are some examples from the screenshots section for Age of Conan (yes I'm totally biased, but they are good examples.)

And before I post them, I don't necessarily think that all of the landscapes are boring, just sometimes they're more background and you can't go explore the mountains, its just a perimeter or boundary of the next zone. I think that is lame. If you are going to make it, let people run around it (which AoC does - told you I'm totally biased…)

Anyway to the pics:
Some are thumbnails because I don't know why. Here is the link to all of them since I don't want to get the links to work.
Screenshots from Age of Conan

Hills leading into mountains
Different mountain range
Inside a jungle
Mountainous coastline
City Harbor
Valley
Swamp
Mountain in the distance
Jungle ruins

There are lots of others, they are just more focused on the combat, characters, etc. so they aren't as scenic since they are zoomed in a lot. So I do think good environments exist, but they can be hard to find depending on the game.

last edited on 1202163128|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover by Krisroe + show more
unfold Re: January 2008 by KrisroeKrisroe, 1202163006|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: January 2008
TrinithTrinith 1202318735|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Most of those came out as thumbs, but still very nice scenery. Do you know of those impose limitations in the form of clipping boxes so you can't climb those mountains, or is it pretty much free-form?

AoC looks awesome, I'm definitely picking it up but I need to upgrade my system because I need to enjoy that in all it's graphical glory.

By the way, as far as scenery went, that Lord of the Rings Online game you all were playing looked pretty good. The only reason I couldn't get into it was because the combat mechanics seemed… weird to me.

unfold Re: January 2008 by TrinithTrinith, 1202318735|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: January 2008
KoalKoal 1202423061|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Those screenshots aren't bad at all. The graphics appear to be top notch and the world design is better than what I've seen in most other games. LotRo also had nice scenery with decent graphics but I never really found it all that impressive. Similarly, while those AoC screens do look good they also seem pretty mundane, tame even.

One limiting factor is range of sight. Let's use WoW for example. In nagrand you can stand on the road between the alliance town and the ethereal outpost and look south over a large open plain marked with crop circles around a giant hunk of crystal. What you see from there is maybe 10-20 feet of grass and maybe a handful of critters. From experience we know there are teams of ethereals working at the smaller crystal formations, a ring of patrolling voidwalkers, a couple herds of bantha, and a 5 story tall giant demon all wandering around the area before the zone drops off into the edge of the nether. But all of that is invisible. What you see is a giant empty plane with some grey-brown grafitti around a fairly featureless crystal stone. None of the detail or activity makes it into visual range.

LotRo was a bit better, they have some reasonable but crude methods of scaling distant scenery so that it can still be represented on screen w/o requiring a lot of graphical horsepower. Go out to the region north of weathertop and head north out of the hills toward the plains. Watch the horizon as you keep going north and you will see flat panels of trees begin to appear. As you get closer those will be resolved into an actual forest.

Another example of LoTRo falling short is in the Ettenmoors. I love the themes and the eternally brilliant autum colors there but so little of the area is actually usable and even the complete zone in its entirety is small enough to be virtually claustrophobic. Hardly a good example of a vast primeval forest as the books described. Take scenes from the LoTRo movies for example, any of the bits of forest that appeared in the movie were of higher quality than what is in the game. Yeah, sure that was a movie but I'm not talking about the quality of the image, I'm trying to separate that from the quality of the design. The set designer for the movie was much more skillful than the world designer for the game.

last one: I can't find an image of it online right now but one of the most impressive scenes from the film for me was where the river turned into a waterfall with a giant statue standing on either side, arms outstretched to warn travellers to stop. If done in most games the player wouldn't even see the statues till they were right on top of him and even then would be unlikely to see above their knees. hell, they would be lucky to be able to see the river bank to either side if the developers didn't shrink it to a ditch.

unfold Re: January 2008 by KoalKoal, 1202423061|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: January 2008
CireCire 1202325290|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Your post reminded me of Eve Online's description. I've seen a lot of ads for it lately and thought about trying it out, but meh… I'm enjoying trying to figure out how to DPS in raids on my rogue.

I honestly think that a LOT of the scenery in WoW is pretty amazing. I do know that when I happen to be playing the game in front of others they are generally impressed with the look of the scenery (IF the first time I ever walked into it was awesome). Anyway, I too am hopeful that these new games will offer more than WoW does currently, but I have become quite the pessimist in that regard. So far nothing has even come close to being as fun as WoW for me, though I really did like the idea of DDOs dungeons.

The thing that annoys me more than anything about some of the new games is the Day/Night cycle. Why do they insist on making it non realistic? I want a day to last a DAY! Not 2 hours. That, above all else kills immersion in the MMOs that I have tried outside of WoW.

Meh… I'll certainly not be jumping into the next MMO right away. If it gets lots of love from Keggers I'll check it out, but for now I'm pretty happy blowing time playing WoW.

unfold Re: January 2008 by CireCire, 1202325290|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
Re: January 2008
KoalKoal 1202421856|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

I think they make it short so that people get to see it change. If they made it as long as a real day/night most people would see pretty much the same thing every time they logged in. Games sometimes (rarely) also have things happen based on weather it is day or night. There was an everquest zone for instance that during the day seemed pretty tame but at night was taken over by werewolves and undead (sorry I can't remember the zone name). LotRo also has some quests keyed off of specific times of day. If you had those and a realistic day/night timescale it would cause some problems.

In WoW you can hardly tell the difference between day or night anyway. In contrast, everquest nights were really dark, as in you had to have a light and could barely see 10 feet in front of your face. It was part annoyance and part ambience. I think it added quite a bit to the game but it was also really frustrating when you couldn't see and didn't have a light.

unfold Re: January 2008 by KoalKoal, 1202421856|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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